FAQ: Complexes

Complexes in Tenerife are mainly (though not solely) governed by the Ley de propiedad horizontal (Law of Horizontal Division), and there are links Spanish and English versions on the Resources page. Below are some of the questions I’m most often asked.

Some questions, such as those concerning the specific percentages required for various votes, need to be answered by qualified administrators. If you don’t already have one, you could consult someone like René Campen of Hestria (website HERE), a generous adviser to this site and a qualified administrator.

Just click on any question or the + at the side to expand it.

Animals

Can I have an animal on a complex in Tenerife.

There is nothing in the Law of Horizontal Division or Spanish Law to prevent anyone having a pet on a complex. I often hear about presidents or complexes that introduce “no animals” rules and the simple fact is that they have no legislative power to introduce such a rule, and cannot enforce it. The only issue for the law is whether an animal is loose, or whether an individual owner puts a “no animals” clause into a rental contract. A community or its officers cannot be above the law and introduce restrictions on owners that private property law does not impose.

Having said that, Spanish law legislates against loose animals in ALL places, and this includes communal areas of complexes. Communities are, moreover, governed by the Law of Horizontal Division which is only ever concerned with owners, so by default, only owners actually have an automatic right to keep pets on complexes: tenants may do so, but only if their contract expressly permits it or, at least, does not prohibit it. A community has no legal right or power to “ban pets”, only the owner of an individual unit in a complex can decide whether or not pets enter that unit. The law does require any pet, however, to be kept on a lead in communal areas, and despite cat owners’ frequent protests, this applies to cats as well as dogs, and both must be chipped and registered (see HERE).

Please note that some dogs are deemed “potentially dangerous”, and specific rules apply to them. Please see HERE.

What can we do about an horrendous problem with dog noise? Can we modify the statutes to restrict the numbers of dogs people have? Must they be registered/can they be left unsupervised for hours on end/can people have as many dogs as they like? Is there any legal redress for owners who are disturbed by dogs barking day and night?

First of all, the issue is one of disturbance, and there is no need (nor ability) to revise the statutes because there are rules in the Law of Horizontal Division against nuisance. This is additional to whatever internal rules your community has (internal rules are different to the LHD and the statutes). So you will already have rules concerning the problem. The problem is enforcement. (Please also see the answer above on dogs in general on complexes).

Whether the dogs are registered, the number of dogs that someone has, the length of time they are left, all of this is nothing to do with the community, I’m afraid. All that concerns the community is the level of disturbance and nuisance caused … unless it’s a case of animal cruelty, which is how a dog left all day on a balcony is likely to be classified. In such a case the police need to be called, and will attend.

In terms of noise problems, the community could introduce a fine system (though this is legally suspect), or it might be constructive to create an informal owners’ interest group against dogs, and all contribute to hiring a lawyer to approach the Ayuntamiento’s environment department (which is the place to start): in my experience they only listen to lawyers. This is probably the most effective response to a situation that will have the sympathy of many, I suspect.

Officials

Can a president be elected without his/her consent?

Does the committee have any legal status?

No. Every owner on a community is a part of that community, and a committee is simply a mechanism to streamline the management. People frequently ask specifically what the role/legal status is of a vice president, and the answer is that there is none in terms of a vice VP as such. Article 13 of the Law of Horizontal Division says that the election of vice presidents (plural!) is entirely optional, and that the function is to substitute for the president as and when required – so a VP becomes the president under certain circumstances of absence or inability, rather than having a specific role in his/her own right.

Does the administrator have to be a specially qualified person, and if not, how can they learn about the law?

Do the officials (e.g. President), have to be owners, and do they have to live in Tenerife?

Has the President got any authority to sack an administrator who is not doing the job correctly?

No. The replacement of an administrator always has to be the result of a vote at an AGM. If there was gross negligence, however, or other very serious issues, which could be proven legally (and probably with a lawyer’s backing), then an EGM could be called with the replacement as the sole item on the agenda. Other than that, I see little option but to wait for the next AGM and meanwhile, lobby for as many votes as possible – and make sure of proxy votes from absent owners – and put together a strong case at the next AGM. Another important thing in the meantime is to create and maintain a diary of “offences” and incompetence, etc., and make sure this gets to all owners in advance of the meeting – in both English and Spanish.

The lawyer who represents our community has explained to the community committee that the president is solely liable for decisions made by the community that are found to be incorrect. Is this true?

In law, yes, the president is the figurehead who bears the legal responsibility for the community. This is why the president has to be the one issuing denuncias, for example, or attending court if there is a legal issue. He is the “community in person” in legal terms. In the last few years, specifically since 2013, the personal liability – legally and financially – of presidents has increased significantly, and the association of presidents and administrators recommends that presidents take out liability insurance to safeguard themselves from any action against them for errors and/or omissions (link – if the link doesn’t work for you just remove the “s” from the “https” in the URL).

What do presidents and administrators actually do?

Presidents are legal figureheads for communities, and to a large extent that is all they “do”. Often there’s a misconception that presidents are somehow a community’s police, controlling disturbances and ensuring order, but that is a responsibility of the entire community. Administrators, for their part, have the sole function of ensuring the smooth running of the community legally, financially, and in terms of information flow. Both president and administrator can only operate within the law and what they can do is prescribed by decisions of the community as determined by vote at general meetings.

In practice, it’s unworkable if the president is restricted by that, and there’s an understanding that small day-to-day matters can be conducted within having to call a general meeting. HERE is the code of practice for presidents of communities from the website of APAF, the Asociación de Presidentes de Comunidades y Administradores de Fincas (association of presidents and administrators). Over the last few years, specifically since 2013, the personal legal and financial liability of presidents has increased significantly, and the association of presidents and administrators recommends that presidents take out liability insurance to safeguard themselves from any action against them for errors and/or omissions (link). Administrators will usually be registered businesses and so have their own liability insurance.

Our President refuses to answer questions from some owners simply because he doesn’t like them, can he do this? / Our president behaves like he owns the complex, surely he has to consult other owners? / Our president is also the administrator and refuses to talk to us about expenses saying he is saving us money, surely we're entitled to know what's going on? (and any number of variations on the same question).

A community is not a private fiefdom. A community can select a different president and a different and/or separate administrator … in fact this is a vote they have to take at every AGM. You don’t need a court to remove a president or administrator, just a vote an AGM or EGM. If necessary, call an EGM with 25% like-minded other owners. Do bear in mind, though, that it is certainly saving the community money because administrators have fees, sometimes quite considerable ones. As to answering questions, if questions are put at general meetings, officials are obliged to answer them! Beyond that, however, neither president nor administrator is at the community’s beck and call so it’s a matter of judgment as to whether he is being unfairly pressured, or being arrogant. Obviously similar situations will be viewed differently by different people with different perspectives.

Debtors

Are community fee debtors precluded not only from voting at the AGM but also from standing for election as officers?

What can a community do about perpetual debtors?

The agenda of every AGM should have an item authorizing the president to take legal action against defaulters, plus the authorization for him/her to use whatever legal assistance necessary to do this. This then gives the community, via the president as a legal figurehead, a legal route to take action.

There is little that can be done outside this legal route, because debtors have a legal right to use all facilities … unless the statutes say that they can be deprived of their rights to non-essential communal facilites, e.g. swimming pool or tennis court. Increasingly, communities with multiple debtors are changing their statutes to allow such owners to be banned from non-essential facilities.

René of Hestria says that the item is put on the agenda in the following form:

Proposal for the partial modification of the Community Statutes in relation to the use and enjoyment of the common swimming pool. Discussion and agreements to be adopted according to the following proposal:

“Access to and use of the community swimming pool is prohibited for all owners who have debts with the community due to the non-payment of two or more quotas and/or extraordinary payments duly passed by the general meeting, until such a time as the debt is cleared, without prejudice to their responsibility to continue contributing towards the costs incurred due to the said common element.”

Changing the statutes needs a unanimous (100%) vote of the people present in the meeting. Those not present have 30 calendar days after the minutes have been sent out to declare their disagreement to the secretary of the community, without which the resolution is adopted. (Law of Horizontal Division article 17.8).

If debtors don't pay, won't they just get away with it when they sell?

No. Their community fees must be paid up to date or whoever is doing their buyers’ conveyancing won’t be able to get the required certificate from the administrators saying they are not in debt. Their unpaid community fees will be registered as a debt against their properties and will need to be cleared before a sale is notarized. At that point, they will either have to pay them before the notary will allow the sale to go through, or they will be deducted from the purchase price. This assumes that the buyer does not renounce any rights he has to this, which he is legally able to do even though it would be unwise, especially since a new owner is liable for past community debts for the year in which the purchase took place plus the three years prior to that.

Can debtors be named and shamed?

The only time debtors can be announced and publicly displayed is in the call to an AGM, where they and the amount they owe have to be listed in order to determine who has a right to vote at that AGM. AGMs normally coincide with the end of communities’ financial years (different to the Spanish tax year which is always Jan-Dec), and so AGMs are when a community’s financial year closes and its accounts are signed off – inevitably, then, this is the only time that the community can determine who is actually “in arrears” in a legal sense. The list can only be published, in individual communication to owners and on the public notice board, at the call for an AGM. There are many communities, however, who forget to take such notices down so in effect they are they on display the whole year.

Is it legal to cut off debtors' water and electricity

No. These are sacrosanct under the law. They cannot be disconnected, and certainly not as punishment. For what it’s worth, however, I have known an administrator disconnect the water to an apartment which was heavily in debt; apparently there was a problem with “flooding”, and the entire water supply needed to be disconnected for a short while. Everyone who was then up to date with community payments was, of course, immediately reconnected …

How long does it take to get a person into the court once they have been denounced and is there a minimum limit to what they would owe a community?

Can debtors be included in the 25% quota that calls for an EGM? I know they can't vote in these meetings but can they be among those who call them?

Alterations

Can I repair or alter my property as I like as long as it's within my own boundary?/ Can I alter the external appearance of my terrace, or build an extension on it? (and any number of variations on the same question).

Any and all alterations or works – even minor internal repairs – need permission from the community plus an obra menor (minor works) licence from the local ayuntamiento. When it involves internal and invisible work, most people don’t get one because the council charges a small percentage of the cost of the works for the licence (check individual councils for specific percentages and particular types of works). Where works are visible, however, or where they will cause obvious disruption or noise, it is always advisable to get a licence to avoid a possible denuncia.

More generally, owners cannot alter the external appearance of their property at all in any case, because that is in breach of the conditions of living in a community dealt with by the Law of Horizontal Division, conditions which owners agree to and confirm by signature in front of the notary as part of signing the escritura to buy the property. That law requires communities to have a uniform model for design, colours, etc. for everything including wall colour, awning fabric and design, fences, etc.

What times can workmen make a noise in a complex?

Neighbouring owners have extended their terrace into communal areas / just taken communal land and fenced it in without a permit from the ayuntamiento / without community approval, who can do what about it? / do we need to go to Court? / do we denounce it, and if so to whom? (and any number of variations on the same question).

No-one needs to go to court over this sort of issue, at least not as a first resort. Ideally the community, but if necessary an individual owner or group of owners, should just report it to the ayuntamiento. Since the works as described amount to an appropriation of communal property, it is essentially theft, and so cannot have been legal … and so by definition cannot have had a licence from the council. Beyond that, the community needs to decide in a general meeting that it will take legal action to recover its own property from the owner who took it. What other owners cannot do is just invade that appropriated land: they couldn’t step onto the transgressing owner’s private freehold, and in these circumstances, a part of the communal area has been taken and incorporated into a private freehold. As such, it is the subject of a judicial process, and cannot just be invaded.

What happens to owners who carried out illegal works or extensions?

They will be denounced in the first place, normally to the Ayuntamiento for works carried out without a licence. If work continues, or is not restored to original state, then the community as a whole will vote, either at the next AGM or an EGM, for legal proceedings to be initiated. Assuming the resolution for legal action is passed by majority vote, the matter will then move on to the Courts, where the complex President takes the action and deals with the Court proceeding as the legal figurehead for the community.

We are thinking of installing an elevator in part of our complex that will only benefit part of the community. Is this possible, and who should pay?

First of all, the law on lifts in higher buildings is that in blocks of more than 4 floors (not 4 floors or more) a lift must be installed in new constructions, but is not obligatory in older ones where it was not part of the original construction. A community can vote to install one in older buildings with a vote of 60% regardless of number of floors. Having said that, the Law of Horizontal Division allows (requires) the community to carry out works for disabled accessibility purposes. This is therefore not a situation with a clear answer. Some people asking this question have suggested dividing up a community, but this cannot be done: it is what it is, but in the event that a minority wanted a new lift, negotiation would be needed as to both installation cost, and ongoing running expenses. This is best discussed at an AGM.

Previously, our complex has not allowed apartments to be used as holiday lets. Now, there is a move afoot by some owners to change this. Under the laws governing common ownership, do they not need the agreement all owners to make such a change of designation

I am assuming that it is a residential complex, and as I said in THIS post a long time ago (scroll to 20 July 2011):

it is in fact possible, within certain constraints, that residential communities could engage in touristic letting. These constraints would make it difficult to achieve, but not necessarily impossible. Providing that a community’s statutes do not expressly prohibit it, and a vote was legally passed by the community and achieved the required percentage, then the community could set up a commercial entity – either an SL company or an Asociación – which would apply for a touristic licence. Any bookings would be through this entity and managed by it as in the case of a touristic complex. Providing that the community complied with every requirement for touristic complexes, the government could not in law refuse to grant a touristic licence. The government could not even drag its feet, because under the Administrative Silence Act, it has six months to respond, or the licence is awarded by default. All this would not necessarily be easy for a community to achieve, but it is theoretically possible.

The required percentage is 100%, and there would inevitably be significant costs involved for the Community to upgrade the complex to meet standards for a licence.

Children

At what age is a child able to use a swimming pool unaccompanied?

The President keeps telling my children off just for playing. They must be allowed to play, surely? Isn't the President harrassing us?

Unfortunately, the fact is that children are generally not allowed to play in a complex. Obviously, if the children are quiet it’s likely that no-one will complain, but the children have no actual rights to play. From the point of view of a complex, those who are disturbed by children are the ones being harassed, not you. Remember that the principal functions of a complex are basically the management of the community and communal areas, and usually, there is no designated play area. Complexes in Spain are not child friendly, which is why so many children in Spanish areas tend to play in play parks.

Meetings

I disagree with the minutes of our last AGM and think they're wrong. No-one is prepared to do anything about this. What can I do?

The minutes must be signed by the President, first of all, so if they are not as you remember, this needs to be addressed immediately and challenged with the President when the minutes are received. If you get nowhere and you consider the issue to be important, you will need to take further action. René Campen of community administrators Hestria has supplied THIS to outline the situation and explain the procedures which need to be followed.

Our AGM meetings and minutes are only ever in Spanish. Is this the law?

How do I call an Emergency General Meeting?

Must notice be given of AGMs, and if so, how much? What happens if less than the required amount of notice is given?

Yes, six days. If less than six days notice is given, the meeting is clearly illegal, and it cannot happen, but Spanish law doesn’t set out what happens next when it does occur! You can evidently declare the meeting illegal, but what benefit that will have, perhaps to other owners who are present and want it to proceed, I don’t know. If you are seriously affected by it, then you or a legal representative could turn up and insist that it is not held and postponed until a future date …

How much notice must be given for an EGM?

Article 16.3 of the LPH gives the notice period of “at least 6 days” for an AGM, but for an EGM, says “con la que sea posible para que pueda llegar a conocimiento de todos los interesados”, i.e. with as much notice as necessary to inform anyone concerned. To an English mind, I can well imagine that that sentence would be interpreted as “with as much notice as necessary to allow everyone to make arrangements to be there”, but this is not what it means. The rules are predicated on the assumption that owners live in their properties, so it should be interpreted as “with as much notice as necessary to let everyone know it’s happening”. That could be as little notice as a day. The whole point of an EGM is that it is intended for extraordinary situations, including emergencies, so time is of the essence.

Is there any legal time limit that questions can be put forward to the agenda before an AGM?

I've been told that there's no such thing as 'Any Other Business' in an AGM. This is a normal part of meetings, surely what I've been told is incorrect?

Is there is a time limit after an AGM for the minutes to be signed off' and circulated?

What can we do about multiple owners who can outvote us every time?

Votes in an AGM are counted two ways – first as quota, but also individually, and in this second vote multiple owners count as just one member of the community along with every other owner. If there is no way of reconciling the two types of votes, then it goes to Court for an independent judgement. I have known many owners group together to take their own lawyer to such meetings to ensure they run as they should, particularly where there are possible conflicting interests in those who are running the meetings.

We are tenants and the owners want us to vote for them in the AGM but other owners have said we may not be allowed into the meeting. Can you tell me what our position is?

AGMs and EGMs are general meetings of the Community of Owners – not residents. As such, owners are the only ones who have a right to participate in such meetings. I doubt you’d be physically prevented from attending the meeting but unless an owner makes you a proxy, you would be unable to speak or vote because you are not an owner. With a proxy, however, you become the owner’s voice – and it is irrelevant whether you are a tenant, a friend, or a formal representative of that owner. The owner should find out from the community’s administrator if there’s a particular form they use or whether they will accept a simple email instruction. In either case, they will need to identify themselves and you with full names and NIEs.

The administrator and President will NOT put anything that we request on the agenda. Can they do this?

Is there a limit to the number of proxy votes a president votes with?

If you give a proxy to someone to vote on your behalf, do they have to vote in accordance with your wishes?

The simple answer is that you are giving someone a proxy to vote, and so they become your voice at the meeting, but they can vote as they see fit with your voice. Indeed, things might arise at the meeting of which you could not be aware beforehand, and so restricting someone with a proxy makes no sense anyway. Having said that, since the agenda details in advance the items to be discussed, one could very reasonably expect that someone with a proxy would know how s/he is expected to vote, and given that minutes are distributed after the meeting, both proxy and owner will find the result openly stated so little can be done that’s underhand. There is no legal requirement, however, even if there’s a perceived ethical responsibility.

Finances

What course of action can be taken when urgent work needs to be undertaken and there is no money in the community kitty?

Can someone be forced to pay a derrama for community amenities?

The basic rule with a derrama is that owners cannot be forced to pay if the sum is greater than three months’ community fees, but those who refuse or are unable to pay are still entitled to use any amenities provided as a result of the derrama paid by others. In an obscure way, this rule is intended to facilitate agreement over the amount of any derrama for facilities which might not be desired by all, or required for emergencies.

I have to pay my derrama in two parts, both of which are expensive. Can’t I negotiate to pay it over longer? Will they class me as a debtor if I don’t pay as they say? I couldn’t attend the meeting where they decided this.

You can’t really “negotiate”. You have to pay as the community has decided. A derrama is a one-off payment agreed by owners, not imposed on you by a management company or an authority – so who would you negotiate with? It is your fellow owners who have decided this, and they have clearly already decided that it is to be paid in two installments. In this respect there’s no “they” about it: the community is you and your fellow owners. Once a community has determined to raise the money and contribute accordingly, that is a legally binding decision by the owners to impose that official charge on themselves, and so yes, those who don’t pay will be classed as debtors – presumably they will have raised this in the meeting where it was decided. Ultimately, it’s a decision taken by democratic vote, and there will always be results that some don’t like; that’s by the nature of communities or any other democracies. To ensure you have your say, you could always give someone your proxy to vote on your behalf in meetings you can’t attend.

Who establishes how much the community fees are and on what grounds?

How much can the President spend?

Technically, the president can’t spend anything without agreement from an AGM or EGM. In practice, this is unworkable, so it is informally understood that he/she may spend on a day-to-day basis on items essential for the running of the complex, provided these expenditures are of a modest nature. The extent of this freedom is undefined, but 10% is reasonable. Non-urgent and unnessary items are most certainly not included in this figure, and the commissioning of expensive artwork would certainly require prior approval from owners. Unless, of course, a previous AGM has formally agreed such a freedom.

What can owners do if after repeated requests over several years, to see the community accounts the requests are ignored?

Ultimately, they can issue a denuncia because it is a legal obligation for accounts to be supplied … not least in every AGM where their approval is the first item on the agenda. An administrator or president can hardly comply with this legal requirement if the accounts aren’t physically there to be approved! I have also known owners group together to take their own lawyer to such meetings to ensure they run as they should, particularly where there might be possible conflicting interests in those who are running the meetings.

Do community accounts have to be audited?

An administrator is a certified professional, and as such, it is the community itself, which carries out any “auditing” – in the sense that it is understood in the UK. Obviously there are other accountants that a group of community members might employ if they are not satisfied. Remember that all owners have the right to inspect any document pertaining to the community, not just at the AGM. It should be within reason though, and I suspect that monthly spread sheets are unrealistic. Important too, is the fact that any agenda must be sent out in advance to members of the community when the AGM (or EGM) is convoked. The accounts must be appended for prior examination, expressly for owners to satisfy themselves beforehand.

Can a president impose a monetary fine on a resident?

No. A president cannot do this, nor can a community give individual owners an economic sanction for infringing the internal rules or the statutes, as the community has no sanctioning power. I have known communities do this, but I am assured by qualified administrators that a community is not a “legal personality”, and as such can only start court proceedings against an owner and it is up to the judge to decide.

What happens when accounts are rejected at an AGM? The committee says they will write to us with the new accounts but will we have to convene an EGM to seek approval of them when they have been re done. Some owners have suggested that in view of this dilemma and the accounts not being approved the community funds have to be frozen. In other words the committee cannot spend any more community money until the accounts are approved. Do you happen to know if this is correct.

No, the community’s funds cannot be frozen, it would make the community incapable of functioning. Indeed, there will be wages to pay, bills to settle, and only the courts could freeze such accounts. That of course is where your situation will end up if the community cannot agree their final version of the accounts. I am grateful to qualified administrator René Campen of Hestria for the following answer:

Community accounts are normally only rejected by the majority of the owners if there is no faith in the administration anymore. Normally, and in the same meeting, a new administrator will be elected who checks afterwards if nothing illegal or improper happened. If not, the (not approved) accounts will be printed in the minute book and that´s it.

It is something else if for example money is missing or when any other form of fraud comes to light, because than court procedures could be started by the community or by an individual owner (who did not vote in favour at the point: approval of the accounts).

To me it is not clear what the benefit is of doing the accounts again, it is not rocket science and doing them again should come to the same conclusions. What happens often is that a balance is not presented in the meeting and this already makes it impossible (in my point of view) to approve the accounts. However this is something that can be sorted quickly and it is not necessary to do the accounts again.

To come to a conclusion: It is no option to freeze the accounts as here above very well explained by Janet and there is no legal obligation to convoke an extraordinary meeting. However, if it was my community, I would strongly advise the president to convoke an extraordinary meeting to clarify the accounts.

Community

Is it a legal requirement under the Horizontal Property Law to have a uniform model for design, colours, etc. in place on a community?

How do you get people to keep quiet and behave properly? Is this a duty that the President performs?

If the nuisance is just to one or two neighbours, it is up to those neighbours to sort it out directly as an issue between neighbours, because each owner is a part of the community. If the disturbance is greater than this, though, then the president should be contacted with a view to organizing police involvement. The fact is, though, that all owners form the community, and it is up to the community as an entity to enforce decent behaviour. This means that any owner can, and should, enforce standards, and is entitled by law to do so – indeed expected by law to do so. The President is not the “complex police”, but a legal figurehead, and ultimately, in the worst cases, the Courts can deprive a nuisance owner of the use of his/her own property for up to three years: if the culprit is a tenant, the Courts can summarily evict the tenant and overturn any rights s/he may have by meas of a contract.

Our president has made the internal rules himself without consulting the community. Should the community not have been consulted?

Our administrators refuse to do any work to supply TV for anyone who isn't Spanish. Can they do this?

Am I allowed access to communual areas such as electric meter rooms, store rooms and pool rooms? Also do I have the right to a key?

No. The electric room is not actually community property as such, but is private to Unelco. Same applies to the telephone room, which is private to Movistar/Telefonica. The keys to other rooms, including the pool room (assuming you mean where the machinery is) are restricted to whoever is responsible for them, in practice this is usually the president and the maintenance man. They themselves do not even have keys to the electricity room, and may have keys to the telephone room but only to provide access to engineers.

Following heavy rain water has leaked from the terrace above into our apartment. Who is responsible for the repair of the leak and of the damaged caused - the owner above or the community?

Who is responsible for the maintenance of the roof.. there is no access. and it is not on the escritura?

Normally, every freehold property on a community is on the inside of an overall freehold area, and the external parts to individual components belong to the community – hence “communal areas”. This means, therefore, as an example, that you have no right to paint the outside of your property because the outside surfaces are not technically part of the individual freehold, but of the freehold of the community. In terms of the roof specifically, it too is communal property and the community has the responsibility to maintain it. As with the fronts of properties, owners do not even have right of access to the roof above their own property (unless of course there is intentional access for a roof terrace) nor a right to place something on it (such as a TV aerial).

If there is a water leak from my property and I'm in the UK, can an official of the community enter my freehold without reference to me? Also can I seek payment from the community for expenses incurred in putting back to normal after repair works carried out in my absence?

The short answer is yes s/he can. If there is a problem on communal property which requires urgent attention, the community is entitled to invade the freehold of any owner to redress the matter, if there is good reason to do so. From the community’s point of view, the urgency or seriousness of a leak, nor necessarly the source, is not known until experts are called in, so s/he is entitled to commission a builder to go in and fix whatever is necessary. The overriding legal principle is that a property is occupied by its owner, and if not, it it at the risk of the owner if something like this takes place when it is empty. If you had been in residence, of course the official would have been required to discuss the matter with you, but s/he is not required to make a phonecall if you are not. I doubt whether your claim for damages would be successful unless you could demonstrate gross negligence on the community’s behalf.

What should be in place, or be done, for disabled access to a community?

There are specific rules for communities under provisions in the Spanish Constitution for the protection of the rights of disabled people. Specifically, there must be direct disabled access by ramp from the street to communal areas, with no steps forming barriers to wheelchairs, and with appropriate width and space for turning. The community is entitled by law to spend up to 12 times a monthly community fee for works to make the complex disabled accessible, the works being subject to agreement by the community and resolved by arbitration if agreement is impossible. Ultimately your administrator will be up to date on current legislation for disabled access at any given point in time.

What are the legal working hours for carrying out work on a complex?

The issue is covered by various laws, including the Law of Horizontal Division, as well as by the specific municipal environmental regulations that will be in place for the particular area, and in addition, may be governed by individual rules introduced in the community concerned.

Given that there will therefore be some flexibility, the general rule is that works may not start before 8am in the week (Monday to Friday), and not before 9.30 on Saturdays, Sundays and fiestas. Works should finish by 9pm on any day.

Our president won't let me see CCTV footage. Can he do this, or is it my right to view them?

66 Comments

Hi Janet,

Our complex of 30 duplexes has one water meter for everyone and we share the cost equally.

For the past three months we have suffered with pressure problems even to the point where we have no water whatsoever and often where there is insufficient pressure to shower. Our washing machine is regularly cutting out as it cannot get sufficient water. There is no time consistency, it’s almost random, but it’s becoming quite intolerable

Our administrators say they are doing everything possible and raising it with the water supplier who are investigating but I suspect nothing is happening. They say there’s no point my complaining to the water company as their responsibility is only as far as the community. Others here are experiencing the same issues but not to the extent we are (I think we are the furthest from the source)

Is there a water regulator I can complain to, or do you think they will they be dismissive because of the shared supply? Can I put pressure (sic) on our administrators in some way … I’ve even considered withholding fees but that feels a little extreme but I suspect they aren’t really representing my issues with any real conviction

As ever thank you for your guidance, it’s very much appreciated

TC

16 November 2018

Permalink
Author

Your options really are either to ask your administrator to show you what is actually being done, or to call an emergency meeting of the community to discuss the problem. You cannot withhold fees. This is not an “us and them” situation where you can “punish” the administrator or president or community by starving them of your contribution – these fees are payable by community members to their own community so you would only be starving your own self of funds! Moreover, they are a legally required payment and you automatically become a debtor if you withhold them, and lose any control over what happens in the community. I personally would call an EGM anyway to discuss the possibility of arranging the water supply differently for the community.

Janet

16 November 2018

Permalink
Hi Janet
My question is about by laws and regulations on a community
We had a new administrator last year
We had previously been told about the rules of the community by the old administrator
The new administrator have said that there is no rules
Where can I get information about this there is a confusing on what is rules and regulations by some owner
Do you need to have the rules and regulations recorded and how far back can they be made
Many thanks
Dave Park

Dave Park

23 November 2018

Permalink
Author

If you had rules they will still apply. Ask the new administrator to put the matter on the agenda of the next AGM for discussion and clarification.

Janet

23 November 2018

Permalink
hello our community administrator have told us we cannot see committee minutes , they are for members only ? ( this is not an agm , just meeting to discuss certain issues ? ) complex in Palm mar , Arona
also been told palm tress cannot be pruned they will die , yet won’t give me names of trees to check and they did them last year – say not a problem if they block our view or effect our light ? in there opinion ? can you advise me in any way please , thanks

carl

26 November 2018

Permalink
Author

The committee is not really relevant because it’s just a subset of owners with no legal status whatsoever. As such, they don’t even need minutes, so there’s no reason for anyone to see them. As to pruning palm trees, it’s a specialist job but they are frequently “pruned”, though it depends how one defines the word. This is something to go on the AGM agenda for the community to discuss.

Janet

26 November 2018

Permalink
Dear Janet, I have been told that the pool area in my residential complex has to be changed to an infinity pool by law, thus costing the owners a large amount of money, can you confirm this change of law for me, or refute it.

Frances Hogg

11 January 2019

Permalink
Author

I know of no such law. As always when you’re given such “instructions” ask for the source or a reference. Ask the person who told you for the law they’re quoting.

Janet

11 January 2019

Permalink
We were told the same a few yrs ago and we had to upgrade to infinity pool at a cost of €40k and recently reapaired again !

John1

11 January 2019

Permalink
Author

Then someone somewhere needs to give a link of some kind to the legislation they’re claiming requires this. I’m unaware of any law in this respect, and indeed cannot see how it could function when most pools don’t have a line of sight to the sea or horizon.

Janet

11 January 2019

Permalink
Janet, the “infinity” part is when the pool water level is at the very top of the pool vessel and constantly overflows thus no scum line on side of pool , more hygienic apparently.

John1

11 January 2019

Permalink
Author

ah, not the infinity type where a hotel pool merges into the sea from the line of sight. Pool regs are governed by legislation at various levels, but the main starting point is a council. All I can do is suggest people enquire what the bylaws are at their local Ayuntamiento.

Janet

11 January 2019

Permalink
What happens when the vote for a new president at an AGM is a tie. One owner has two properties so I assume she will get two votes. This then will result in a tied vote. Does this mean the status quo remains the same and the current president remains in situ.

Gabby Rigby

15 January 2019

Permalink
Author

As I explain in the meetings section above, each vote is counted twice. So your fellow owner will have two votes for her two units in , but in the other way of counting she will just be one vote because it’s one per head. As I explain above, in the event of a dispute where both ways of counting fail to produce a clear result, it would have to be the Courts which decide.

Janet

15 January 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet
Please can you tell me what the law is in Tenerife regarding late night noise from bars near residential complexes
Many thanks

Finbarr O’Callaghan

16 January 2019

Permalink
Author

They are governed by local authority bylaws, which sets the conditions in their opening licence. The only way to be sure in any given case is to approach the Ayuntamiento.

Janet

16 January 2019

Permalink
At last years AGM this years was scheduled for 4 March 2019 but we have just received notification the President cannot make this date and wishes to re schedule for 12th. Is this permitted ? Not only have some owners already booked flights which do not accommodate the new date but having set the date at last years AGM is that not legally binding. What if we all say we cannot make the new date. We are a small complex but nevertheless its very inconvenient.

Clarence

16 January 2019

Permalink
Author

Yes, it’s permitted. I appreciate it won’t be applauded by foreign owners but Spanish law presumes owners of property in Spain to be in Spain and so able to make these meetings. I’m afraid that even though it’s inconvenient, owners still have the option of appointing a proxy voter to vote in their place if they can’t make the new date. Any date set in the AGM can be changed as long as people have a week’s notice.

Janet

16 January 2019

Permalink
can you confirm the legal position on how voting in a president works. is it based on how many people vote in favour for a particular person or the hightest % area of the apartments/garages/traesteros.

l m h

26 January 2019

Permalink
Author

Please see the answer to the question “What can we do about multiple owners who can outvote us every time” in the Meetings section above where it is explained. (Quota itself is explained in the answer to the question “Who establishes how much the community fees are and on what grounds?” in the section on Finances).

Janet

26 January 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet

The Committee in my complex has refused me permission to erect a permanent sun shade (gazebo) on my top floor roof terrace, despite the fact that other residents already have them. They say that they want to preserve the look of the complex. My terrace is higher than all of the others and therefore not visible from anywhere on the complex. Can the permission from the Town Hall override the committee?

Sue Westwood

3 February 2019

Permalink
Author

The committee is powerless in this respect. If others have done them I see no way the community can stop you, but if anyone can it is the community as a whole, not the committee. I personally, given the nature of the work and the objection, would get an appointment with the administrator and talk it through, and then if necessary check things out with a lawyer and/or the council. My feeling is that although the committee is unable to stop you, it is worth checking out if any objections raised by the community could prevent you proceeding in the same way that others already have.

A couple of points to bear in mind in case these were behind the objection. With a gazebo, any external colour or design schemes must be adhered to, and when fixing the gazebo to the floor, great care must be taken to ensure the damp proof membrane under the floor surface is not damaged.

Janet

3 February 2019

Permalink
If i may – sound advice from Janet – unless as in our complex the administration does precisely as he is told by our ” president” and has said he will not even offer an opinion. Any ” statues” / rules i have seen on several complexes are alarmingly vague as to be useless. If a precedent has been set, and the structure does not obstruct views from neighbours the community must, in equity come up with legitimate reasons – an impression of the structure superimposed on an actual photo is easily done these days.

Unsurprisingly, i suspect that most committees, and Presidents are not building experts but there are some very skilled installers who would produce a proper specification.

RJL

R J Little

4 February 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet
We are a residential complex in Tenerife, unfortunately we have a couple of apartments that have been purchased with a view to rent via hosting websites Airbnb etc, we have now been informed that if the complex constitution does not prevent this , an individual can apply for a touristic licence for a apartment and rent is this correct
Thank you

Tony

5 February 2019

Permalink
Author

Please see HERE in the first place where I’ve posted the latest in the holiday letting legislation situation. As I’ve now said to several enquirers, following a recent Supreme Court ruling the law will have to change from its current stance that private holiday letting of residential properties is only permitted in wholly residential areas to include those in touristic and mixed touristic-residential areas.

For the moment the situation remains as it was but the Supreme Court ruling is clear and the law will have to be amended. It was already being redrafted, and the new ruling will need to be incorporated. Anyone considering taking action, therefore, against owners who are breaking the law will have to make that decision in the full knowledge that what might be illegal right now won’t be for too much longer.

There will still be certain restrictions as there are right now (see HERE) but until we see the new law we won’t know what it looks like. There are also things communities can do under existing legislation to try to control a situation which might be upsetting to permanent residents (see HERE).

Janet

5 February 2019

Permalink
Hi

If anyone out there has experienced major water leakage in their community which necessitated the repair/replacement of the main underground pipework I’d be delighted to hear from them. Specifically I am trying to get a handle on the sorts of costs involved (recognising each case is different of course), types of remedial work and disruption caused, and any recommendations on engineer/contractor

Thanks

Tony

6 February 2019

Permalink
I am the president of one such community where we have had three fractured pipes in the last 18 months. Although the community is insured against breakages because the pipes were 3-4m underground gas detectors and cameras failed to find the leaks subsequently our insurance was nil and void. They will only pay out where they can see the damaged pipe.

In these instances because the leakage to the pipe was in the community, the community coffers had to take the hit. We also had to reimburse the owners for the increase in the bills from Entemanser. It was easier and cheaper to run new pipes from the water meters to the individual properties. The cost of each repair was approximately €1000 which was very reasonable considering in one case (mine) they were out at 1am trying too detect the leak because the sound from the pools was distracting. Over and above the increase in water consumption the reimbursement was in the region of €300-500. We worked it out comparing typical bills for that household from the previous year. Not an exact science but best we could do.

A neighbouring villa has just had a similar problem and the bill was around €4,000.

Incidentally, I believe Entemanser have or are working on a wireless smart meter which will monitor the consumption and in the event of abnormally high usage will alert the owner and/or despatch one of their technicians. The cost I gather is in the region of €65 but I suspect this will be at least annually. I do not have all the information at present.

I hope this is helpful

Seal420

6 February 2019

Permalink
Is there a legal limit to how many vice presidents can be elected to serve on a committee?

Barry S

6 February 2019

Permalink
Author

As I say above, the VP has no actual function other than to deputize for the president in some legal matters where required so it’s not really a meaningful question. A community is not required to have one at all, so I see no actual technical reason why every owner other than the president shouldn’t be elected VP if the want the title.

Janet

6 February 2019

Permalink
Thank you SEAL420 for your comments. Interesting about repaying owners, that hadn’t crossed my mind … but in our case we have just the one meter for all properties s perhaps not applicable

Tony

8 February 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet
Can an admin company send out a burofax relating to a vote that took place 2years ago about an infraction. The vote was that the cable should be painted the same colour and that no legal action would be taken.
Many thanks

Baz

16 February 2019

Permalink
Author

The Burofax is a standard way to communicate about an official matter where proof might be needed in future legal action, so it sounds quite normal to me that they would use this method, particularly over something involving an infraction even two years after.

Janet

16 February 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet can a person who’s not a regestered owner of a propertyon a complex be voted onto the committee of owners ?

James Bailey

19 February 2019

Permalink
Author

yes because the committee has absolutely no legal status whatsoever.

Janet

19 February 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet , I’m a bit confused about voting rights as you describe above being “counted ” 2 ways .
If a vote is taken at the meeting of attendees + proxies on an issue based on cuotas , where in the process does the “second way of counting ” come into it and how does it influence the result ?
eg If the attendees + proxies have the majority but those attending have a majority as individual voters + proxies on 1 vote basis – who carries the day ?
Thanks for your work !

John1

23 February 2019

Permalink
Author

The votes are counted once per head (attendants at the meeting) and once per quota. So someone who owns five apartments has one count per capita but five counts per cuota. Both have to tally or there is disagreement and the vote is invalid until confirmed by another vote or by the Courts. The administrators count votes both way during the meeting because they have the quota percentages there … and a calculator!

Janet

23 February 2019

Permalink
Thanks Janet but I’m still not getting it !
Say there are 60 people and vote on a motion goes 31-29 in favour by a head count (i.e. 1 vote each) but when you count via the Cuotas the result is against the motion , which vote wins?
I’m assuming proxies are included in head count ?

John1

25 February 2019

Permalink
Author

Yes proxies are included because they are a vote representing the owner. The situation you describe is one where there is a difference in the counts, with one count leading to one result and the other to a different result, and in these situations, neither vote “wins”. The two ways of counting the votes must tally, and if they do not, the community has a problem it must either resolve itself, by discussions and if necessary further votes until it can get the measure rejected or approved definitively, or the situation needs outsiders (ie the Courts) to sort out … a bit like Brexit!

Janet

25 February 2019

Permalink
Dear Janet,
Our complex is about 45 years old has some commercial locals underneath the community gardens and walkways, which are part of the complex. During heavy rain, water finds its way naturally into these locals. Most are vacant spaces. However, one owner has converted this space into a bar some years ago and feels that we should protect them from the rainwater that we don’t own and have no realistic way of stopping making its way down in the local.
Who is responsible, the Community or the owner of the local? I can see no way that we can stop rainwater seeping down through the ground and this is a structure that’s remained unchanged in 45 years. The change is in the climate.
In the UK its quite normal for cellar conversions to be “tanked” inside and that is the only solution to keep water out of an underground property, I can see no other solution for the owners of underground locals.
It would seem to me to be unreasonable for the community to foot a bill for an internal improvement of a premises we don’t own.
What are your thoughts on this?

Tony Delaney

23 March 2019

Permalink
Author

My instinct is that the complex causes water to damage somebody’s freehold, and as such does have the responsibility to prevent any damage caused. As you say, tanking would probably solve the problem, and it is not very expensive, but that would be setting a precedent for anybody else who might want to develop a local underneath. With the complex being as old as it is, the legal situation would I think require a lawyer’s opinion, to find out what the relationship is between the complex and the locals (the locals are usually part of the complex in such situations), and thus determine the responsibilities.

Janet

23 March 2019

Permalink
Dear Janet, further to your information re derramas you say that a community can’t be asked to pay more than 3 months community fees, is this a one off 3 months or is this 3 months in any one year.
Kind regards

Frances

5 April 2019

Permalink
Author

Not suer I understand you. The payment of a derrama cannot be compulsory if the amount is more than three months of an owner’s community payments.

Janet

5 April 2019

Permalink
Hello,

After how much time an AGM should be called, after the budgetyear has ended?

hans snoek

5 April 2019

Permalink
Author

The AGM is annual. It should be called the same time every year. There is no requirement for it to be a particular length of time into a year.

Janet

5 April 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet, if my share is say €150 do I have to pay that every year until the amount required for the refurbishment is collected.
Kind regards

Frances

5 April 2019

Permalink
Author

It depends on what was agreed at your AGM! You should be asking your administrator who will have all the details.

Janet

5 April 2019

Permalink
Dear Janet, thanks for the great advice on this thread.

Our community has a communal hot water system and the costs are distributed according to ownership coefficients and not consumption. Some feel this is unfair and want to install individual meters but I am unclear as to whether this requires a modification to the statutes, thus 100% vote, or simple majority. My feels in the former as it is a change to the way costs are distributed in the community for the last 40 years. Any advice appreciated.

David Williams

18 April 2019

Permalink
Author

Thanks for the kind comments David, but what you’re asking is technical and specific, and needs a qualified administrator to answer. Apologies.

Janet

18 April 2019

Permalink
I have a question for you.
In the deeds is stated that the fee is based on coefficient.
By unanimous voting 10 years ago it was agreed to change into a fixed fee per apartment.

Now ONE owner wants to get back to the original system, so change back from fixed fee to fee based on coefficient.

Is it true that only ONE owner can do this?

Regards
Hans

hans snoek

24 April 2019

Permalink
Author

Sorry but with technical quota and voting questions you will need to ask a qualified administrator.

Janet

24 April 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet l have a water leak from my water meter . The pipe from my meter goes into the road outside my villa where it is leaking. The water board states they are not responsible as it is community. The administrator states that because the leak is passed my meter it is my responsibility is this correct?

john

5 May 2019

Permalink
Author

Actually these matters are impossible to diagnose at a distance. There are too many variables depending on community Statutes, location of meter(s), pipework through private/communal areas. The basic fact is that the water company’s liability ends at the water meter, and thereafter it is usually the owner’s responsibility. The community would be responsible if, say, the meter is housed in a communal area, but as I say without knowing much more, and in detail, it isn’t possible to identify specifically. If there’s a dispute between community and water company, and you yourself do not see yourself to be liable, then I would suggest getting a qualified plumber or even lawyer to look over the matter.

Janet

5 May 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet , the president of our community has just informed us that the pool is to be regrouted and out of use for a week,she has given 8 days notice this wasn’t brought up at the last agm, and the work is not urgent. After telling her I think this is very short notice especially after the has known this was going to happen for a few months now She has told me the maintenance of the complex is down to her and the vice president and nothing to do with the community and we don’t need to be informed as such, please could you give me your views on this. Thank you

Tracy

11 May 2019

Permalink
Author

Provided that the works were agreed at some point by the community, and they must have been in order for such works to be carried out at all, then the timing is not down to the community. Indeed the timing cannot be because it depends at least in part on extraneous factors like contractor availability over which a President has little to no control. You don’t confirm in your question whether the community has in fact approved these works at some point, and if it did not, then that is a different matter, of course.

Janet

11 May 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet, thanks for your reply, no the works were not approved at all, in fact we only found out about them a week ago and work has already started,, thank you

Tracy

11 May 2019

Permalink
Author

Then they cannot proceed. Works such as this must be approved by the community at an AGM or EGM. The president has no authority to order non-emergency works like these autocratically. Send a Burofax to the president and administrators asking for their legal justification for doing this without reference to the community. It’s possible there is some understanding that they can explain to you, but if not, the Burofax will be your first point of order in taking whatever legal action might be required.

Janet

11 May 2019

Permalink
Janet. Always interesting – hope we,ll hear how Tracy gets on. Seems some Presidents rule autocratically. Also know of administrators who simply will not voice their own opinions – merely rubber stamp whatever ” committees prescribe.

R J Little

12 May 2019

Permalink
Author

Thanks, and I too hope Tracy will report back.

Janet

12 May 2019

Permalink
Hi Janet,

Can you define ‘non emergency works’ I imagine pretty well most repair and maintenance work is ‘non emergency’ so how does a President go about keeping a community properly maintained and in good order? Is there an indicative cost limit or something similar?

TC

12 May 2019

Permalink
Author

There’s a certain amount of leeway here. Obviously “emergency” is self-explanatory – a burst pipe or electrical outage, that sort of thing – but non-essential or needful minor works can’t wait for a general meeting to be called, and self-evidently shouldn’t involve the whole community by necessity in deciding to replace a missing screw or equivalent. Indeed, a president who didn’t carry out urgent and even routine minor repairs would be deemed negligent. Bear in mind, though, that “maintenance” generally is something determined each year in the budget, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

Where you look for a cost limit, however, there isn’t a clearly defined one, no, but I think we all have an idea of what might be “reasonable”. And of course, any president considered to be acting “unreasonably” in this respect still has to stand for re-election at the next AGM … that is where the community has its control.

Janet

12 May 2019

Permalink
Thanks for the reply. I was bothered by the earlier remarks. Grouting of a pool is a fairly routine bit of maintenance, (not often perhaps) and should be within any reasonable budget. This time of year is about as quiet as it gets, so the timing is good.

I would very much hope that to undertake such work wouldn’t require the approval of residents at an AGM/EGM but it is entirely reasonable to expect notice to be given.

TC

12 May 2019

Permalink
Author

And that is why asking the administrator for the justification is important. It is quite possible that a schedule or community regulations for determining when and how often the pool should be grouted was part of the initial project, or is actually in the Statutes … the administrator will know, while a new owner might not be aware of the history. Always good to start with a simple question to the administrator and take it from there. Generally, though, grouting a pool is not in my experience classed as routine maintenance for a community, at least in terms of budget, even though it is regularly required maintenance from the perspective of the pool itself.

Janet

12 May 2019

Permalink
I suppose it also depends on why the pool is to be regrouted. Our pool is a certain age and the pool tiles come adrift after a certain time. This creates areas in the pool where people might stub their toes or even cut themselves. It also enables algae to form on the unprotected areas. We have to carry out regrouting/refurbishment work every couple of years. If we did not do that we would face health and safety issues. We carry funding in the budget for such general maintenance and it is left to the President and our maintenance manager to schedule the work as and when it is required. It is normally undertaken in quiet periods.

Snowbird

12 May 2019

Permalink
Dear Janet,
My question is;- does a person need an NIE number to hold the position of President of a community?

Oilibhear

16 May 2019

Permalink
Author

Well, a President must be an owner, and you need a NIE to buy a property, so yes, but it’s to do with ownership not community officialdom.

Janet

16 May 2019

Permalink
Regrouting, or resealing, being classed as an emergency. It can also be described as an emergency depending on the location/construction of the pool and what is being affected by the leak. For example, privately owned property or locales, communal machinery rooms, storage areas walkways etc.
and as Snowbird says Late May early June are the quietest times of the year to carry out these works with the least disruption to owners. It is inevitable though that some owners will be affected. Unfortunately that is part and parcel of living within a community.

Una Campbell

19 May 2019

Permalink